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Don Barcardi Ron Sweet as I have noted to Juliens regarding same that if this falls as there appears to be information to support same that contrary to concrete evidence to the contrary the remaining will fall like dominoes. It has been eerily quiet to say the least.
Laura Panunzio Such a waste of time. Jesus ! Tons of comments to say always the same things. So boring.
Helen Schroeder Helen Schroeder Ron Sweet The most important news: The oval design detail in the top right corner of the standee is from a version which is NEWER than the one first released in August 2009 (info from Advance Graphics).
Laura Panunzio Oh yes, this is a NEWS! Now, we can be in peace tonight. LOL
Helen Schroeder Oh Laura Panunzio . Just bear with us.
Laura Panunzio No, I'm in the edge to delete all ! Believe me. As you probably don't have a f..g thing in life to do but me YES ! I left TINI Ron Sweet to stop with fights against windmills and have fun with our site as you always convinced me, but now I find myself involved for 2 months in this endless crap all the saint days! I'm really tired and mad at all of this and these people need a serious life ! Staying hours and hours commenting on a standee? Ok you're all 100% sure is fake, so now what? Sale has been stopped, money refunded to avoid other mess and now what do you all want? Crucify some people so your thirst of hatred and ego will be quenched, until you find next drama to deal with? My curiosity: don't you have kids at home who are waiting for dinner, or a husband/fiancé waiting for some cuddles or just a pet? Your life is only here on FB? My Lord what a sad life! I also wonder where all these people were when Michael was alive!
Don Barcardi Laura Panunzio aside from the passionate wanting some to have to eat this standee if it in fact does fall then the signature on it may in fact lead to the unraveling of upward to millions of dollars regardless of blame. The signature on the standee is similar to the signature on many other pieces as you well know. If that can be "really" confirmed then law enforcement authorities may become interested since the dollar amounts as a result would be significant to draw the attention of USAGs as well as others. Having an independent area to exchange perspectives, confirm or refute "facts" is a good thing. I would have thought it might have been anticipated with the QA eminating here. And while I understand the essence of what you say nonetheless, I for one am taken back by it.
Laura Panunzio Well, Don Barcardi I gave up in 2010 with 'law enforcements's dream' and you know why? For a simple reason: 'cos where there's huge money and huge power, poor and unpowerful fans like us CANNOT DO ANYTHING! We experienced this in 2002 with demos against Sony in London and NYC where I was active part of it and in other occasions and not last when me and a couple of other followers (who attended events and concerts since 1987 and knew Michael quite well) founded TINI to give our testimonies on how Michael was abused and exploited up to his last days, without NO-ONE and repeat NO-ONE, including his siblings, new and old TII staff intervened, crossed their arms and stopped that awful tragedy that was happening in front of their eyes. Nobody heard us in the trial and many fans accused us of being nuts, 'cos Michael looked healthy in the movie when we continuously repeated No and said he was led to die 'cos he was worth more dead than alive! In fact, now that same crew plus most of his family wrote books, made interviews, signed deals for CDS, is doing live concerts, is selling drinks and sold his own items (including fans's gifts) , while AEG and Murray (hired by them) killed him and that monster got 4 years in prison with the chance he will be out soon, while a hacker who published naked pics of Johansson got 10 years. SO you understand why now I can't care less of signed items, standee JA/Bush etc...as it's only wasted time and I want to deal only with my main hobby which is filing collectibles and have fun! I will remember him this way now and for his lessons of Love and Forgiveness, with no more dramas or lost battles since day 1.
Don Barcardi how very sad but oh how so very true and it's resulting demoralizing affects. The same story in many ways can be written for Whitney, Janis Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison and my all time favorite Elvis who as you know became a hostage to graceland. Odd factoid about the judicial system is after the jury (presuming one) verdict comes in the judge even in statutory min/man sentencing" guidelines" gets to make the call (why you see them keeping notes on relevant points and consistency is far from the norm), one never knows whether it's the law or justice being served. I recently read a quote from Curt Schilling on why noone was elected to baseball's hall of fame this year. "if steroids is at the center of this then we are all guilty - those that were taking them & those that did nothing to stop it" (although I wonder what happened to those that might have tried). That is why places such as this play a more important role than others in more ways than can be imagined as they don't need "hidden groups" or driven by the lunatic fringe whose mindsets are nothing but "drama". And as you well know this too will pass and life will go on. For some it might be personal agendas, museums or the artist while for others it may just be about "the hobby and the credibility of the collectables".
Ron Sweet @Helen: But it really only matters if it's clear the signed standee came EARLIER than the standard commercial one (actually, MUCH earlier). And even then, it is quite clear that NO version of this (except from a "psychic bootlegger") could have come before 6/25/09 or even 8/21/09. So it really is just further proof of what we already know. I think at some point this all can and will be definitively proven (as I have outlined above--since internal/external memos/order requests/contracts, etc. can all prove when the standee designs were first approved and conceived). It's really just a matter of time.
@Laura: Welcome to FaceBook. Wait, is there actually a FB group out there where people (such as ourselves) actually do anything other than waste time with (mostly) meaningless commentary? I don't think this thread is any different to 90-95% of the other threads on all the other groups (Farmville anyone?) At least here people (for the most part) respect each other's opinions and refrain from attacking people with opposing views.
Laura Panunzio Ron Sweet you don't understand my point of view. When I was dealing with TINI, I believed it was a good cause and we had tons and tons of testimonies against AEG and those who had totally neglected his health conditions and you were the first to tell me to stop this useless battle as I was wasting my time, my money and my sleepy nights. Right? So NOW I find this totally useless 'cos it won't lead to anything. So I don't care at all if comments are not defamatory or against each other as this is Me now: I'm dealing with this since November 2012, when many people started spamming my email boxes with dozens of emails to ask me to say something publilcy, so I'M STRESSED NOW AND CANNOT DEAL WITH THIS ANYMORE.
Laura Panunzio PLEASE ALL, GIVE ME A BREAK AND STOP COMMENTING HERE.
Ina Reinders Is censorship the modern way of throwing friends (who haven't started the fire, but simply came at a bad time) out of your house or is FB coincidentally not performing perfectly?
Laura Panunzio Ina, are we friends? Anyway, please respect my opinions as I respected all of yours since 2 months. No THE END! If you don't like this, I'll survive.
Ina Reinders Laura, you created the metaphor of a house, when you complained about the behaviour of certain group members, I was simply rephrasing and expecting you to just "invite" friends over. I'm saddened to be so wrong - your post made it obvious that we're no friends to you, just group members.
Still, you don't "own" us or our opinions and I'm tired of being pressured or shut up by you. I believe many out there don't even dare to post anything anymore - as long as they don't have a super-mega-rare-whatever-item that might be of interest to you.
I'm really happy for having found this group and I told you before how much I appreciate the work you and Ron put into this. But I feel that you get far too much emotionally involved. In my opinion - I know you might not be so fond of reading it - you can run a group like this in two ways: 1) actively and respectvully moderate or 2) let the group evolve and run free. You can also choose your strategy depending on the particular topic. But you cannot open discussions, let them run, still feeling obliged to "be part" of it and then shut it off when you're done and tired. Just ignore posts if you're bored by them or you got more important stuff to do (as long as nobody is offended or you're not addressed diredtly) - we all do that on a daily basis! This is not your email inbox... so why do we have to "give YOU a break"? Nobody is complaining to you or accusing you or even addressing you.
As I can just speak for myself - comments and indicents like this are unlikely to motivate me to put more of my time in uploading more items. Yes, I might not be Mrs. I-have-it-all... but still I think that all of us are contributing their share to your website. And at least therefore we deserve a tiny pinch of respect. Thank you!
Laura Panunzio You're welcome Ina. The problem is that you don't understand one simple thing: it's not my email box but it's my group so when I say I'm tired of reading redudant comments , not constructive at all, but only saying 1000 times the same things, well I get bored and sick. This is it. My aim to start doing something for Michael Jackson's community again, after years I was away (just 'cos I was tired of debates and riots of any kind) was to do something for fun and nothing else. Now, alll of this creates me burden and heaviness and gives me pain because there are too may people involved and I don't know the truth, nobody knows it. I have health issues in my family and honestly, I use this group to distract myelf. Can you get this? I hope so. And also FYI, it's full of other members who are pissed off by this drama and want to talk about collectibles only, in a group created and born for this. Is it asking too much to respect this? It's full of other groups and forums where you and others can speak and tell what you want, but now really I don't want to read any more things here. It's my request made with heart, without rudeness as I'm very stressed and can't handle this any day more.
Ina Reinders Yes, I read your comments before about your personal issues and I understand that you want this project here as "light", "fun" and "positive" as it can be. Honestly, I do, too - there are enough real-life problems that surround us.
And you're right, I simply do not understand the concept of this being "your" group. A group is a group and consists of 2 or more individuals sharing interests or activities. An individual can be an initiator, moderator and catalyst, but never own a group. And this is exactly where our opinions divide - you set up rules and you have the power to throw out everyone not following your rules - for me a group has many more democratic features which by the way its name (a community of equal collectors informating and supporting each other) implies. With this mindset of my own, a founder/moderator of a group is not responsible for everything happening and does not have to read all comments until (s)he dies from boredom, but can also take time off, sit back and relax. Couldn't FB-life be just that simple?
Laura Panunzio No for me no, as when I start something, I take care of something from the start to the end with passion and this is only a mirror of our site and I want this to be nice, otherwise if everyone did what he/she wanted, it would be a catastrophe and full of spam. Administering a group means to fix some rules too and if these rules aren't appreciated, nobody forces anybody else to come in. It's just like a party at my home: if I say I don't want drugs or heavy alchools, this must be respected, because I don't want to pay consequences for others's misconduct. About here, if I left everyone adding bootlegs, without moderating this, FB could close the group if Sony obliged them to do so and this would be a loss for me as I spent many hours in answering questions and building the community and I'd be very pissed off. Of course, you can disagree and run a group on your own, doing what you like the most and I welcome you to do one so probably you'll feel me better.
Ron Sweet Laura, why don't you simply delete this thread. It's clear you don't want people to post here anymore and I fear that you and I are just becoming part of the problem. I thought we were having a somewhat valuable discussion, but you seem to disagree and now it really is becoming what you said it was all along--worthless chatter.
Cathy Anderson I thought this was really interesting discussion about a incredibly unigue situation in the MJ collecting world. I am grateful that this thread is here and am hoping to not see it gone...
Mickie Qbee I agree with Ron Sweet above. Might as well delete it now as this discussion is no longer about the topic but all about laura and her not wanting comments. Best solution for all is to delete it now. I came too read any new updates and information. Instread Its become boring and redundant and not about the tppic at all. Maybe it's just time to move on to more positive things. So it wont be a sore spot.
Laura Panunzio <<Maybe it's just time to move on to more positive things>> Finally!
Don Barcardi Just my two cents - it has been valuable from my viewpoint to dispel erroneious information as well as confirm other even though there might not be the flaming sword of justice in the near term. Which side you believe is upto you. Perhaps the last 15 or so comments can go while reminding others to cut down on repetition. This way if some other puzzle emerges or myth to be dispelled there can at least be a forum for it. Better yet, Ron Sweet didn't you suggest a forum on the MJJ site rather than FB. Is that still an option? If it is, I can port the information for the most part... if that is still an option and won't upset the "owners"?
Julia Thomas Laura , your attitude is bad. Since I've come here this week. You are the only one here with offensive comments to others. How can you expect people not to discuss a topic. That's what most do on Facebook. How dare you speak to the individuals following this page like you have. You need to look at the Man in The Mirror. No one here had anything to do with your experiences at TINI. Goodness.
Yes, Don, I think that is a good idea. Our site isn't nearly as active as this FB group is (grrrr), but at least it will be a way for anyone who wishes to continue the discussion/commentary pertaining to this interview to do so without taking up this “pinned” space on our FB group. I think this is a “happy compromise” since it will create a permanent place for this discussion on our own site, while still keeping the topic “alive” if and when people want to add further comment/news to it. I will set it up right now. Ron
Robyn Starkand Unfortunately Andy Healy post has been deleted... He had side by side comparisons of the 2 standees and they WERE different...as Darren Julien had mentioned...It really was a great visual sorry it has been deleted
Laura Panunzio Julia Thomas instead of judging as you don't know anything about this group and what I meant, just read every comment and will understand I'm not offensive towards anyone, 'cos otherwise I could simply delete members and delete the full thread. I'm just tired, stressed and sick of bs, when in my family I have 3 people who are bad ill and can die? So all the rest and ego of some fans who want drama at any cost is something I DO NOT CARE. If you find my words so offensive, why don't you remove yourself? No problem at all.
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